Just a few days ago, the FreeCapitalist Project released a new version of their Official Handbook, which you can download here. I have never seen any previous version (or even known about the Handbook before this version), so I don't know how it was changed. The Handbook is for the FreeCapitalist Project, which is a program to get people involved in learning and promoting the things that are part of the FreeCapitalist movement. The FreeCapitalist Project, as far as I can tell, is only about organization of people. There is no financial investment plan or product offered, except for some seminars that are required in order for a person to obtain certain levels in the Project. Other aspects of the FreeCapitalist movement are outside the FreeCapitalist Project, and I am only reviewing the FreeCapitalist Project in this article.
Ponzi Schemes and Pyramid Schemes
Ponzi Schemes and Pyramid Schemes are not the same thing. A Ponzi Scheme involves a scam get people to invest in a person on group that promises at high rate of return, but the return is paid out using other people's investments in the program, rather than the proceeds from a legitimate business. An example would be if I promised you a 10% return on your money next month, and you give me your money, and I indeed give you your money back plus 10%, but I used the money from another person who just recently signed up and gave me their money, to pay you your interest. If I can keep getting new people to sign up, I can keep paying 10% rates of return to people who have already invested in me. Obviously this only works for so long. Mathematically it is impossible for everyone to make money. Let me repeat that: Mathematically it is impossible for everyone to make money. At best there will be a transfer of money from the people who got in last to the people who got in first. This is illegal almost everywhere, but even if it's not, it's obviously unethical. However, Ponzi schemes have been around for a long time and have gotten very sophisticated overtime. People may be able to point out simple and obvious Ponzi schemes, but inevitably there will be new ones that have more complexity and more "products" or "services" that make it difficult to even detect if it is a Ponzi scheme. (see WikiPedia article on Ponzi Scheme)
A Pyramid scheme, on the other hand, does not involve investment like a Ponzi scheme. A Pyramid scheme is business payment model where the participants of the programs are paid based on the activities and referrals of other people they have signed up to be part of the program. An example of this is a business that pays you money if you can get other people to sign up and have them sell the product, and you would receive a commission on their sales. Those people you signed up can do the same thing and sign up further people and so forth, thus building a pyramid structure of a "sales force" where people in the pyramid receive a commission of the sales done by people below them in the pyramid. This is also called "Multi-Level Marketing" since you can be paid commissions from sales done in multiple levels of the company sales force structure. This is and of itself is not illegal, as far as I know, as long as the company can demonstrate that it is satisfying a legitimate market demand for a good or service, and that the primary income of the people in the pyramid is from product sales, not from recruiting people to join. What usually gets companies in trouble is that they require a signup fee for people to participate in the pyramid and\or membership dues and\or the sales are primary from within the pyramid, that is, the revenues generated are coming from the people involved the pyramid itself, not from the outside market. If the revenues are coming from dues, fees, or people in the pyramid, then the company is not actually providing a good or service that is demanded by the marketplace, and is in essence transferring money from the people at the bottom to the people at the top. (see WikiPedia article on Pyramid Scheme)
The Federal Trade Commission has a page on "pyramiding" which says,
As in my experience I wrote about in the "What Is Being Sold?" post, a company may actually offer a product or service to the marketplace. However, this by itself is not enough to prove that the revenues of the business are largely from that product or service. And, it also doesn't mean that the revenues from those products or services are largely from outside the pyramid. They could be from the people inside the pyramid. As I wrote in my own experience, most of the water filter sales were actually from people in the company, not out in the market, and the reason people bought the water filters was to support their own promotion efforts in the company, not because they personally wanted to use all those water filters.
If a business at its essence is a Ponzi scheme or Pyramid scheme, no additional complications can change the fact that it is mathematically impossible for everyone to make money, and usually it is mathematically impossible for most people to even make money. And that business can only operate for as long as new participants, or new money from existing participants, enters the scheme. It does not matter what good or service is sold, it does not matter what the details are of the payments, it does not matter who is involved (trustworthy or not), it does not matter what principles the company states it has, the track record doesn't even matter (since it is unsustainable): Ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes have to fail. They are mathematically bound to. Either everyone in the world will join (and the last ones will be the losers), or everyone will run out of new money to put in, and the scheme will collapse. No one can make it work, just like no one can make musical chairs work when there is one less chair than the number of people. The skills of the people involved, or even their intentions, cannot trump mathematics, regardless of different ways to extend or delay the collapse of the scheme. It is just a matter of time.
How the FreeCapitalist Project is a Pyramid Scheme
Now that we have reviewed what a Pyramid scheme is, how it is different from a Ponzi scheme, why it is unethical, we can read through the FreeCapitalist Project Handbook and see why it is a Pyramid scheme and why the rules at the end are written the way they are. I have not seen any information on the financial of the companies involved, and I am only going off of what is publicly available in the Handbook. In my opinion, the payment structure outlined in the Handbook in essence can only be sustained, and the people involved in the program can only make money, while there are new people coming into the program.
There are several levels of the Project, and most of them can only be obtained by progressing from one level to the next:
The third level, New Member Quest, is the first level where you actually become a dues-paying member of the organization and you take the FreeCapitalist Pledge and are required to recruit others into the program in order to progress. There are required classes at this level, but they are free. However, there is a $100 "Quest Fee." There also are cash bonuses offered if the people that you recruit complete certain levels in the program. At this level, your progression up through the levels depends on you bringing new people into the program. Progression at this level, in essence, is defined, at least in part, as you being able to sign new people up. To be at the "New Member Quest" level, means that you have brought other people in (not just that you get an award or bonus if you do). It is a requirement to bring new people in.
At the next level, Silver Quest, and higher, the monthly dues become rather high. At Silver it's $99.97, at Gold it's $149.97, at Apprentice it's $199.97, and at Journeyman it's $249.97. A question I ask is, why so high? What are the dues being used for? And what is the $100 "Quest Fee" used for? There is no "FreeCapitalist Project" building I know of, or facility needed to create a product. There is a FreeCapitalist Project Board and there must be some accounting system to handle all the funds coming in and going out, but that's all I can find. You would expect that at these higher levels that the required monthly dues mind actually go down, or be waived completely, since at all these levels you are required to bring in new people, who will also be paying dues and fees and tuition, and also bringing in more people. But it's not just that you are required to bring in new people, it's also that some of those people must obtain high levels themselves, which indicates that they, too, have recruited new members who have started paying dues, and so on.
Also as part of the requirements of some of these higher levels, certain expensive courses must be completed.
Aside from tuition costs (which could be argued as necessary to offset the costs to offer the courses), why does the FreeCapitalist Project need very much money at all? Since the Project promises bonuses and commissions to participants who complete certain criteria in the Project, the Project needs dues and fees to pay those bonuses and commissions. In fact, since there is no product or service being offered from the Project that brings in revenue to the Project, the promised bonuses and commissions can only come from the dues and fees of other participants. The lower the dues and fees, the more need there will be to bring in new people to pay dues and fees before receiving bonuses and commissions. Similarly, the higher the bonuses and commissions, the more need there will be to bring in new people.
Ponzi Schemes and Pyramid Schemes
Ponzi Schemes and Pyramid Schemes are not the same thing. A Ponzi Scheme involves a scam get people to invest in a person on group that promises at high rate of return, but the return is paid out using other people's investments in the program, rather than the proceeds from a legitimate business. An example would be if I promised you a 10% return on your money next month, and you give me your money, and I indeed give you your money back plus 10%, but I used the money from another person who just recently signed up and gave me their money, to pay you your interest. If I can keep getting new people to sign up, I can keep paying 10% rates of return to people who have already invested in me. Obviously this only works for so long. Mathematically it is impossible for everyone to make money. Let me repeat that: Mathematically it is impossible for everyone to make money. At best there will be a transfer of money from the people who got in last to the people who got in first. This is illegal almost everywhere, but even if it's not, it's obviously unethical. However, Ponzi schemes have been around for a long time and have gotten very sophisticated overtime. People may be able to point out simple and obvious Ponzi schemes, but inevitably there will be new ones that have more complexity and more "products" or "services" that make it difficult to even detect if it is a Ponzi scheme. (see WikiPedia article on Ponzi Scheme)
A Pyramid scheme, on the other hand, does not involve investment like a Ponzi scheme. A Pyramid scheme is business payment model where the participants of the programs are paid based on the activities and referrals of other people they have signed up to be part of the program. An example of this is a business that pays you money if you can get other people to sign up and have them sell the product, and you would receive a commission on their sales. Those people you signed up can do the same thing and sign up further people and so forth, thus building a pyramid structure of a "sales force" where people in the pyramid receive a commission of the sales done by people below them in the pyramid. This is also called "Multi-Level Marketing" since you can be paid commissions from sales done in multiple levels of the company sales force structure. This is and of itself is not illegal, as far as I know, as long as the company can demonstrate that it is satisfying a legitimate market demand for a good or service, and that the primary income of the people in the pyramid is from product sales, not from recruiting people to join. What usually gets companies in trouble is that they require a signup fee for people to participate in the pyramid and\or membership dues and\or the sales are primary from within the pyramid, that is, the revenues generated are coming from the people involved the pyramid itself, not from the outside market. If the revenues are coming from dues, fees, or people in the pyramid, then the company is not actually providing a good or service that is demanded by the marketplace, and is in essence transferring money from the people at the bottom to the people at the top. (see WikiPedia article on Pyramid Scheme)
The Federal Trade Commission has a page on "pyramiding" which says,
"If a plan offers to pay commissions for recruiting new distributors, watch out! Most states outlaw this practice, which is known as "pyramiding." State laws against pyramiding say that a multilevel marketing plan should only pay commissions for retail sales of goods or services, not for recruiting new distributors." (FTC page here).
As in my experience I wrote about in the "What Is Being Sold?" post, a company may actually offer a product or service to the marketplace. However, this by itself is not enough to prove that the revenues of the business are largely from that product or service. And, it also doesn't mean that the revenues from those products or services are largely from outside the pyramid. They could be from the people inside the pyramid. As I wrote in my own experience, most of the water filter sales were actually from people in the company, not out in the market, and the reason people bought the water filters was to support their own promotion efforts in the company, not because they personally wanted to use all those water filters.
If a business at its essence is a Ponzi scheme or Pyramid scheme, no additional complications can change the fact that it is mathematically impossible for everyone to make money, and usually it is mathematically impossible for most people to even make money. And that business can only operate for as long as new participants, or new money from existing participants, enters the scheme. It does not matter what good or service is sold, it does not matter what the details are of the payments, it does not matter who is involved (trustworthy or not), it does not matter what principles the company states it has, the track record doesn't even matter (since it is unsustainable): Ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes have to fail. They are mathematically bound to. Either everyone in the world will join (and the last ones will be the losers), or everyone will run out of new money to put in, and the scheme will collapse. No one can make it work, just like no one can make musical chairs work when there is one less chair than the number of people. The skills of the people involved, or even their intentions, cannot trump mathematics, regardless of different ways to extend or delay the collapse of the scheme. It is just a matter of time.
How the FreeCapitalist Project is a Pyramid Scheme
Now that we have reviewed what a Pyramid scheme is, how it is different from a Ponzi scheme, why it is unethical, we can read through the FreeCapitalist Project Handbook and see why it is a Pyramid scheme and why the rules at the end are written the way they are. I have not seen any information on the financial of the companies involved, and I am only going off of what is publicly available in the Handbook. In my opinion, the payment structure outlined in the Handbook in essence can only be sustained, and the people involved in the program can only make money, while there are new people coming into the program.
There are several levels of the Project, and most of them can only be obtained by progressing from one level to the next:
- Primer Quest
- Community Quest
- New Member Quest
- Silver Quest
- Gold Quest
- Apprentice Quest
- Journeyman Quest
- Free Enterprise Union Quest (elective)
- Free Capitalist Radio Affiliate Quest (elective)
The third level, New Member Quest, is the first level where you actually become a dues-paying member of the organization and you take the FreeCapitalist Pledge and are required to recruit others into the program in order to progress. There are required classes at this level, but they are free. However, there is a $100 "Quest Fee." There also are cash bonuses offered if the people that you recruit complete certain levels in the program. At this level, your progression up through the levels depends on you bringing new people into the program. Progression at this level, in essence, is defined, at least in part, as you being able to sign new people up. To be at the "New Member Quest" level, means that you have brought other people in (not just that you get an award or bonus if you do). It is a requirement to bring new people in.
At the next level, Silver Quest, and higher, the monthly dues become rather high. At Silver it's $99.97, at Gold it's $149.97, at Apprentice it's $199.97, and at Journeyman it's $249.97. A question I ask is, why so high? What are the dues being used for? And what is the $100 "Quest Fee" used for? There is no "FreeCapitalist Project" building I know of, or facility needed to create a product. There is a FreeCapitalist Project Board and there must be some accounting system to handle all the funds coming in and going out, but that's all I can find. You would expect that at these higher levels that the required monthly dues mind actually go down, or be waived completely, since at all these levels you are required to bring in new people, who will also be paying dues and fees and tuition, and also bringing in more people. But it's not just that you are required to bring in new people, it's also that some of those people must obtain high levels themselves, which indicates that they, too, have recruited new members who have started paying dues, and so on.
Also as part of the requirements of some of these higher levels, certain expensive courses must be completed.
- Introduction to Self-Reliance for $249.95
- Intro to the 13 Principles of Prosperity for $999.95
- Capitalism & Civic Service for $1,495
- Prosperity Quest Mentoring for $4295
Aside from tuition costs (which could be argued as necessary to offset the costs to offer the courses), why does the FreeCapitalist Project need very much money at all? Since the Project promises bonuses and commissions to participants who complete certain criteria in the Project, the Project needs dues and fees to pay those bonuses and commissions. In fact, since there is no product or service being offered from the Project that brings in revenue to the Project, the promised bonuses and commissions can only come from the dues and fees of other participants. The lower the dues and fees, the more need there will be to bring in new people to pay dues and fees before receiving bonuses and commissions. Similarly, the higher the bonuses and commissions, the more need there will be to bring in new people.
24 comments:
why does the FreeCapitalist Project need very much money at all?
Why indeed. Perhaps to the tune of $450,000+ ? Or, at least attorney's fees to contest. I almost missed this in the newspaper, but caught it a day or so after it was scheduled to complete running:
Legal Notices
IN THE FOURTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT COURT
UTAH COUNTY, STATE OF UTAH
Harbor Real Asset Fund, LP, a Delaware limited partnership, Plaintiff,
vs.
C. RICK KOERBER, an individual, Defendant.
SUMMONS
Case No. 080401060
Judge Gary D. Stott
THE STATE OF UTAH TO C. RICK KOERBER:
You are summoned and required to answer the attached Complaint. Within twenty (20) days after service of this summons, you must file your written answer with the clerk of the court at the following address: 125 North 100 West, Provo, UT 84601, and you must mail or deliver a copy to plaintiff’s attorney at the address listed below. If you fail to do so, judgment by default may be taken against you for the relief demanded in the Complaint. The subject matter of the lawsuit is the claim by plaintiff Harbor Real Asset Fund, LP against C. Rick Koerber for his liability as a guarantor of loans made by plaintiff Harbor Real Asset Fund, LP to Hill Erickson, LLC. The sum of money claimed to be owing to Harbor Real Asset Fund, LP by defendant C. Rick Koerber is $451,561.92 as of March 7, 2008, with continuing accruing interest, fees and costs. The Complaint for this action is on file with the Court.
DATED this 1ST day of April, 2008.
/s/ Paul D. Veasy
201 South Main, Suite 1800, One Utah Center, Salt Lake City, UT 84111
PARSONS BEHLE & LATIMER
Attorneys for Plaintiff
Legal Notice 319208 Published in The Daily Herald May 5, 12, 19, 2008.
Start Date: 05/05/2008 End Date: 05/19/2008
I was considering posting this at the freecapitalist, but do you honestly believe that it would last more than 2 seconds before being deleted?
Thanks for the info. That lawsuit doesn't sound like it is directly related to the FreeCapitalist Project itself, but rather some other investment involving some of the same people. This probably would be better under the "People Have Gotten Themselves into All Sorts of Trouble" stub post rather than the Pyramid scheme post because I don't think this lawsuit has anything to do with the pyramiding of the Project.
You're probably right, and that thought crossed my mind when I first saw this notice a week or so ago. There wasn't anything under the heading that you mentioned, plus, I thought it might not get noticed that far down the page, and, when you posed the question, why does freecapitalist need the money, I thought this might be the place to fit it in. When it comes down to the bottom line, all of these things fall under the umbrella of Rick. Cut & paste and move around as you see fit.
I just noticed some interesting things with the FreeCapitalist Project "Standard Agreement" which is the sign up form (http://primer.freecapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/FCP_Standard_Agreement.pdf).
I wouldn't give my Social Security number. And I definitely would not give auto-withdrawal permission for monthly dues from my checking account. Giving permission for a company to go and take funds from your account is very different than sending a check every month. Auto-withdrawals are risky to you, but companies love them because they are pretty well guaranteed to get their money, even if you don't have sufficient funds (you'll just go into overdraft and pay fees, etc.). Also, if you you want to challenge a withdrawal, it's much harder than with a credit card. And once the money has been pulled out of your account, you have to fight to get it back. Whereas with a credit card, when you challenge a charge the vendor must fight to prove you authorized the transaction so he can get his money. Just send a check every month (assuming that's allowed).
And even if there is an honest mistake, it could be a real pain if there was a withdrawal of funds every month even after you send notice to cancel ("never received it." "takes effect end of next month", "our records don't show..." etc.). All that fine print on the second page of the Standard Agreement is there for a reason, and it's not to protect you. It's to protect the Project. At least you can follow their lead to reduce liability and protect yourself by not using auto-withdrawal.
You also agree to pay all attorney costs, if either party (you or the Project) employs legal counsel.
You also agree to not write any "critical information" about the company or else your membership will be terminated and you promise to pay them at least $5000 (Item #10). Good thing I never signed up, or they might try to take me to court to get their minimum of $5000 for breach of contract.
By the way, you are really guaranteed no payment from the Project other than through your "own efforts" (Issue #3).
So what again does membership in the FreeCapitalist Project offer a person? There sure seems to be a lot of fees, a lot of risk to take on, and any monetary gains come from your own efforts anyway. The company, though, seems to get a lot of benefits: liability protection and pretty good cashflow. Doesn't seem like a fair deal to me, even if this weren't a pyramid scheme.
There's been no comment on this article from the Free Capitalist people, which I find a little surprising. Perhaps there will be something in the next few days. Regardless, the info is there for everyone to see.
I find it hilarious that a group that claims to support freedom and liberty would require its members not to write anything critical about the group or its members or pay a fine. So much for the First Amendment which, last time I checked, protects freedom of speech as long as it isn’t libelous or poses a danger to others. But when you sign up with the Free Capitalist project, you give your free speech rights away unless you have the money to pay. I think the reason for this is that there are lots of former members of the group who have become disgruntled and disillusioned about the project and, like you, are venting their views online.
You’re right about one thing: The entire membership agreement is about protecting The Free Capitalist Project and those who run it. I’m curious as to whether or not there’s another “freedom-loving” group out there that prohibits critical comments by former members. Can you imagine the outcry if the NRA, ACLU, LDS Church, or other political or religious organization put those kind of free speech restrictions on its members?
I think the entire membership agreement deserves a separate post.
I’m curious as to whether or not there’s another “freedom-loving” group out there that prohibits critical comments by former members.
Yes. They are known as cults. Do some looking around for cult checklists and quite a few similarities pop up: leader is "divine", Us vs. Them thought process, elitist group mentality, newspeak way of talking, etc. Am I saying franklin squires, freecapitalist, et. al. is a cult? As I posted further down this blog... maybe. :P Freecapitalist movement may not be a cult in the Branch Davidian or FLDS sense, but the more one digs deeper, boy does that line keep getting fuzzier and fuzzier.
I wish I could edit posts, but I can't, so I'll double post. Here is a link from a well established exit counseler, Steven Hassan. His link combines both MLM and cult tactics: http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/a/amway/
Amway is the most well known "original sin" of all this, so I think it fits the blog entry.
The First Amendment and Freedom of Speech (as well as the rest of the Constitution) only restricts government. It does not apply to private individuals or private companies. A company, church or other private institution can have any membership requirements it wants. If you don't believe me, try bad-mouthing or criticizing the church and see how long you remain a member.
aaron, that's it? I spell out how the Free Capitalist Project is a Pyramid scheme and the implications of that, and you try to argue with another commenter about whether private institutions can curtail free speech?
See, this is why I try really hard to keep everything on point. Because if I don't someone will try to argue some little nitpicky side issue that pales in comparison to the main issue.
This might be a good opportunity for the Free Capitalist people to counter my points. It's out on the stage, and people are watching.
"If you don't believe me, try bad-mouthing or criticizing the church and see how long you remain a member."
But can you imagine if the church tried to impose a fee? It is one thing to not want members in your organization who disagree with you. It is another to be able to impose fines for warning others about your group.
I do have one question though for you Utahn since I have not read the freecapitalist agreement. Are they imposing the fine for sharing critical as in important information about the project, or is it simply if you criticize the project. I can understand an organization not wanting people to share trade secrets, but if they are really trying to silence critics then that is just laughable. I can't believe anyone would sign up for this crap.
I posted a link to the agreement earlier. Here's the entire text of the section about the fine:
"10. Confidentiality. By signing this agreement I hereby agree and specifically promise that I shall not disclose to any third party, any confidential information revealed to me by FreeCapitalist Enterprises, LLC. In the event of termination of the agreement, I agree that there shall be no use or disclosure by myself of any onfidential, proprietary, private, or custom information of FreeCapitalist Enterprises, LLC. I also promise not to write or otherwise publish or have published any critical information about the company, its owners, officers, employees or members and understand and agree that breach of any portion of this paragraph will result in the immediate termination of this agreement and a fine of not
less than $5,000 which I hereby acknowledge and agree to pay in such circumstance plus an amount for any corresponding damages to FreeCapitalist Enterprises, LLC."
I'll try to steer this conversation back on track....
Re: In fact, since there is no product or service being offered from the Project that brings in revenue to the Project, the promised bonuses and commissions can only come from the dues and fees of other participants.
There are the classes...but, as you pointed out, they're a requirement -- not an option.
What's really being sold here is a membership in an "elite" group. Kind of like a country club -- but without ponies and a golf course. :-) While there's nothing wrong with this, I have a hard time understanding the value offered to the members who pony up the monthly memebership fee. At least with a country club you have a place to hang out and order expensive food. What does your monthly membership fee actually buy someone?
But there is a difference between the FreeCapitalist Project and a country club: a country is a club to use facilities. The country club is producing a service but only to certain people. The Free Capitalist Project however produces nothing, and the only money they get is from people joining. If the Free Capitalist Project was a club, or a bar, or golf course, then yeah it would be similar. But instead, you just give money in order to receive money from other members.
...the country club doesn't promise payments to the members, either. And the country club doesn't advertise the club as a to make money. "Join the Hidden Hills Country Club and make up to $1000 a month!"
Just because you don't see any value in becoming a member of the FreeCapitalist Project doesn't mean that there isn't value being created. I for one, value being a member much more than the 30 bucks a month I'm paying, just for the association with high-level producers. I also get to be a part of an organization which promotes good government and has and will continue in the future to guide our country back to it's founding principles. If you can't see the value in that, then don't join.
"Just because you don't see any value in becoming a member of the FreeCapitalist Project doesn't mean that there isn't value being created."
No aaron. The FreeCapitalist Project can only meet its financial obligations to members by paying them with the dues and fees of other members. It doesn't matter if the Project produces anything of value if it is a pyramid scheme. It's still a pyramid scheme and can only last as long as new members come in. Whatever "value" they may or may not produce cannot change this.
"I for one, value being a member much more than the 30 bucks a month I'm paying, just for the association with high-level producers."
I think I will start charging my friends $30 a month just for the priviledge of associating with me. Of course I will spew tired cliches about finance every once in a while and speak about how they dont really understand what an apple is because they were trained, taught, and educated incorrectly. That way they will feel they got their monies worth and not totally ripped off.
"I for one, value being a member much more than the 30 bucks a month I'm paying, just for the association with high-level producers."
Do you mean those who are paying $250 a month?
Anonymous: If there are people who value being associated with you enough to pay money to do so, then more power to you. I see nothing wrong with it as long as it's a free exchange. As far as the $250 comment, if at some point in the future I value the program that much, than I will certainly participate at that level. One of the major problems in our country right now is that we have people like you who want to tell everyone what to value and for how much and force their views on everyone else at the point of a gun.
Aaron,
I don’t think that anyone is telling you how to spend your money or whether or not you feel you’re getting “value” for the $360 you pay every year. What’s being questioned here is the structure of Free Capitalist Project and the way they’re trying to recruit people. Utahn's point is that it can't mathamaticaly be sustained.
And my $250 comment was sarcastic. I was wondering what you considered a “high-level” producer. Considering that a lot of companies run by many “producers” have either closed shop or laid off a good deal of their employees, I was wondering if one of the criteria you used to determine who is or isn't a "high-level producer" was the amount of membership dues they paid.
I don't understand the purpose of this blog. What is the objective? Is it to take down The FreeCapitalist Project, Rick Koerber, Capitalism, Free Enterprise, The Founding Fathers? What is the objective? Is it to promote socialism or the authors consumer mind set / scarcity mentality?
History seems to constantly repeat itself. When an individual or organization stands up for Freedom, Liberty, Capitalism, Free Enterprise and the Constitution there is always critics who think that they are doing fellow americans a favor by making a mockery and a fraud out of the individual / organization that is actually standing up for something. So I pose the question again, what is the objective of the author of this blog?
Do you not believe in Capitalism, Free Enterprise, Freedom and Liberty. Apparently your agenda is to belittle someone and something that fights for your freedoms and liberties that you unknowingly or knowingly piss away every day. You, the author, hide your cankerous soul behind he mask of your computer and your blog. You unknowingly make assumptions without doing your due diligence on the topics, individual or organization.
Have you ever attended a FreeCapitalist Event? Have you ever met or interviewed Rick Koerber? Have you ever read the FreeCapitalist Primer, Have you ever read anything by Ayn Rand, Ronald Regan, or Ezra Taft Benson? It is clear that you have not. Because if you did you would be thanking Rick Koerber and the FreeCapitalist Project for standing up for Capitalism, for Free Enterprise, for the principles in which you most likely agree with and support but are to ignorant and weak to stand up for what you believe.
If any of you think that our country is on the right track and that we can set on the wayside and it will correct itself you are sorely mistaken. If will take an organized effort with free citizens to stand up and say"Enough!" Our liberties are being taken away from us everyday. Our freedom is in jeopardy on a daily basis. It is happening on a very local level. If you don't believe me, please read the article of something that happened this week that is proof of the socialistic state that we live in. If this makes your blood boil, then I would challenge you to join the FreeCapitalist project and lets do something about it. Stop wasting your time reading these blogs that are so completely subjective. They are absolute garbage.
http://fcd.freecapitalist.com/2008/09/05/rogue-agency-arrests-stay-at-home-utah-mom/354
To "The General:"
I wrote several times why I created this blog. Even in the description of the blog at the top of every page it says: "The Free Capitalist radio show and website have put forth some ideas which I wish to respond to. I do this as part of the conversation that goes on in our self-ruled society, not because I have any ill feelings towards anyone or any group."
You make some huge mistakes by jumping to conclusions that since I am critical of the Free Capitalist Movement, I must not like capitalism, or freedom. You think I am part of the problem. You think somehow by me criticizing the Free capitalist movement somehow makes it more noble because it is being "attacked." You think that because the country has problem that somehow that makes the Free capitalist movement right. You think that because I critique the Free Capitalist movement that I haven't read anything or listened to anything directly from them. There's your problem. You are running all these assumption about why I am even challenging the Free Capitalist Movement and not even reading what I wrote on this blog. I explain my critique very thoroughly, and I read the Primer and hours of radios shows and other material. I have already read the same authors Koerber has. I've been a student of economics, politics, and history, too. I've come to different conclusions, and I explain them.
Stop assuming that people challenging the Free Capitalist Movement do so out of ignorance or because they have a "scarcity" mindset or because they are "socialists." It's old, we are way past that. Why don't you read some of the points I make and other commenters made and address those?
To the author of this blog...
Thank you for practicing the very essence of a freedom.
You have on your own effort researched and spoken your mind and asked tough questions.
I discovered FCP's radio stream and was about to do the mistake of attending one of these cult meetings...until I discovered your blog.
I have since listened to with a cynical view and discovered he's always on the verge of revealing some hidden knowledge when in fact it's information readily available and mostly common sense.
Again, thank you.
In light of recent events, I invite "The General" to make another appearance here in the comments section in order to apologize for using the words "Rick" and "Koerber" in the same sentence with Ayn Rand, Ronald Reagan, and Ezra Taft Benson.
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